The state of wooden coasers

[dkny6363]

I was thinking while looking at the new SDC additon. It looks like there is a new player on the wooden coaster scene. Is there enough room for all these companies? I fear Gravity Group or GCI may suffer badly from this. Especially in North America. Other than mini's the last GG in NA was 2008 RF2. No sign of the second Intamin woodie in NA and its going on 7 years. I guess the coaster boom in China will keep them a float for a while...

Any thoughts on this? I had more to say but Im being wisked off to a movie.

[B-mac]

You forgot about wooden warrior canada. Trust me, the woodie companies are fine.

[dkny6363]

^ I said other than mini's... Wooden warrior is what I meant by mini. My point was there is only so much work to go around. I'm not sure 3 major companys can exist in the wooden coaster market.

[AV Matt]

At one point we had CCI, GCI, RCCA, Taft (Hurlers if I recall),and Intamin all making woodies simultaneously.

Rocky Mountain Coasters makes hybrid rides, not exactly true wooden coasters IMO.  I think TGG and GCII will be ok for a while, but we probably won't see much from them close by for a while. New GCI in Florida and California next year though!

[Blackhand1001]

At one point we had CCI, GCI, RCCA, Taft (Hurlers if I recall),and Intamin all making woodies simultaneously.

Rocky Mountain Coasters makes hybrid rides, not exactly true wooden coasters IMO.  I think TGG and GCII will be ok for a while, but we probably won't see much from them close by for a while. New GCI in Florida and California next year though!

The rocky mountain coasters still use the same shape track as regular wooden coasters so they should ride similarly. All the new type of track really does is reduce the maintenance costs and allow more intensity and crazier transitions. Also intamin while using cnc machines uses essentially the same materials as traditional wooden coasters. Track is square and the supports are made out of wood. The rails are laminated steel but all wooden coasters are built that way.

Partially assembled rocky mountain rail.

[dkny6363]

Most of those company's are done now or in intamins case not really throwing up wooden coaster. I hope there is enough maintance work to keep them going in slow years. Seems like GCI is doing okay lately, but they've had slow years before. My concern is with Gravity Group. They are by far my favourite company and I just don't see them building many full size woodies in NA anytime soon. Still zero at corporate parks so far. I'd like to see them start putting up wooden warriors at all kinds of smaller parks. But I still want more full size GG's.

I asked the question before where will we see the next intamin woodie in the US and I still believe if ever it will be at Hershey. What about Gravity Group? Silverwood perhaps... Imagion Knoebels through the woods.

[Robert T Ackerman]

A lot of these companies now make their bank on reprofiling, rehabs, trains, and other requests from the parks to work on current, operating wooden coasters. I hope we get another "boom" of wood soon though.

[AV Matt]

Yes conventional wood coasters have a strip of steel on top of the wood, but that's very different from wrapping the wood track in plate steel.

The thing that makes El Toro ride different is the wheels, not the wood track. These small differences change the feel of the ride. That feeling is the whole point of a wooden coaster IMO.  Nothing feels more satisfying than the way Phoenix rides. You lose that on these new technology "woodies". Just my opinion. 

Also these new companies are gonna cost more than doing it the old fashioned way so many parks are gonna go for the cheapest option.  I bet all future Cedar Fair and Six Flags woodies will be by GCII or RMC simply because they don't want to have to maintain their rides and they have the budget.  TGG makes the best wooden coasters in the world, but they require more maintenance due to their aggressiveness. Of course the Timberliners may change that!

[B-mac]

GG's cost only a few more mil for construction than GCIs and RMCs. Outlaw Run at SDC is supposed to cost about $10-$11 million and most GCIs run about $7-$10 million. I think RF-II cost about $8.5 million and Voyage ran about $14-$15 million.

[AV Matt]

Umm, your numbers are a little off. Voyage cost less than half of that. TGG coasters are the least expensive option. GCII's cost more because they overbuild the structure to reduce maintenance, which also gives the ride a different feel by transferring more of the vibration to the rider.

[Edwardo]

Voyage cost $8.5 mill.  Prowler, which is about half the length of Voyage, cost $8mill.  GCI and RMC are going to cost more up front because the cost of maintainance is less over time.  GG Coasters, with Timberliners, could be less and less cost over time now.  I think they've learned some things with Voyage, especially the recent re-build.

We aren't seeing as many wooden coasters right now simply because parks aren't building as many coasters.  I do think that we'll see more wooden coasters built in place of steel due to cost, especially since these companies are offering more and more maintainance friendly rides and trains.  I know M&V and GCI are doing lots of rehabbing.

And in a decade or so, I think that you'll see less Intamin wooden coasters, especially in the states.  They're expensive.  Yeah, it's less to maintain, but now that the other 2 big players and an up and coming are less to maintain AND less expensive, Intamin just isn't going to do much wood.  And they don't need to.  They have plenty of new other rides, as well as replacement parts to keep them in business.

I think that we'll see midsized coasters at parks in the US.  Outlaw Run, while extreme, is a midsized coaster.

And I think the company that is going to hurt is PTC.  I could see any remaining GCI coasters that have PTC trains get MilF trains (are there any more besides Roar West?).

Any new GG coasters will have Timberliners, and I could see GG pushing Timberliners for Hades and any other coaster they've had a hand in.

RMC is making their own trains now too.  So is Intamin as they have been.  The only thing keeping PTC in business is if Larson (Formerly S&S/Arrow), Vekoma, or someone fringe company built a new wooden coaster and didn't build their own train (and I think Vekoma does...).

They'll survive plenty of time on replacement parts, but if and when major parks start replacing their rolling stock and/or get rid of their wooden coasters (Or pull a Texas Giant), then PTC's business will dwindle.

[B-mac]

I think you mean Roar East?

Some CCIs still run the old PTCs (Great White, Ghost Rider, Timbers, Tremors). I believe Dauling Dragons also got PTC trains instead of Timberliners for some totally last second reason. Besides those points yeah PTC definitely is going to get hurt in the long run as manufacturers make and use their own trains over time.

[AV Matt]

PTC has something like a hundred wood coaster trains currently operating throughout the world. It will be a while before they run out.