Voyage To Get New Trains--Timberliners

[GADVwow]

http://www.holidayworld.com/node/3071

[Millennium Force 44]

Interesting news. I am a bit sad about this news because I've never been on the Voyage and really want to experience it the way it originally rode. I guess if it makes the ride faster, which means more extreme airtime, then I shouldn't be disappointed too much. Anyway, the restraints look very similar to the ones on Maurer Söhne's X-Car coasters.

[B-mac]

they look good and all, but it elimates the effect of a "true" woodie.

[GADVwow]

How so?

[dkny6363]

bitter sweet news

[AV Matt]

They may go faster, but part of the airtime is achieved by the pivot action of the longer cars. So the question is, will the trains go faster enough to make up for the loss of pivot action? I am worried. One only needs to cite Hershey's Wildcat as an example of what happens when you replace PTC two-bench cars with single-bench cars.

[kingdakafan]

Those are trully bizzare looking trains.

[nitrorox1414]

^ ya I know there funky!

But if it is the #1 wooden coaster wouldnt they keep the trains???

[GADVwow]

Holiday World is known for being cutting edge on stuff like this.  Legend, for example, opened with Gerstlauers.  The park was not happy with them, and quickly replaced them with PTC's.

[AV Matt]

They can't keep up with the PTC trains eating the Voyage, so they are looking for a lower maintenance solution. Ironically the G-train was supposed to be lower maintenance than the PTC's that followed, but G-trains suxors other than they load faster.

[dkny6363]

^ HARD core answer Matt

[Robert T Ackerman]

Interesting news. I am a bit sad about this news because I've never been on the Voyage and really want to experience it the way it originally rode. I guess if it makes the ride faster, which means more extreme airtime, then I shouldn't be disappointed too much. Anyway, the restraints look very similar to the ones on Maurer Söhne's X-Car coasters.

Matt... it sucks you'll never get to experience The Voyage the way it was originally designed... hopefully these wont deter from the ride too much.

[Millennium Force 44]

Interesting news. I am a bit sad about this news because I've never been on the Voyage and really want to experience it the way it originally rode. I guess if it makes the ride faster, which means more extreme airtime, then I shouldn't be disappointed too much. Anyway, the restraints look very similar to the ones on Maurer Söhne's X-Car coasters.

Matt... it sucks you'll never get to experience The Voyage the way it was originally designed... hopefully these wont deter from the ride too much.

Thanks rob, that made me more depressed haha

[GADVwow]

Wow.  I am stunned, if this article is correct:

...The park will spend $540,000 to replace three 28-seat cars with two new 28-seat cars on the ride Amusement Today has rated the world’s number one wooden coaster for three successive years. The third train turned out to offer only marginal improvement in operating capacity, which Koch expects to see offset by faster loading and unloading with the new cars....

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/nov/09/new-trains-should-make-award-winning-coaster-feel-/

Assuming by "cars" they mean trains, this is the bargain of the century, if the figures are indeed correct.  Even that much per train would be a bargain compared to other companies prices.  Of course it is possible that Holiday World got a substantial discount by being a previous customer AND taking delivery of the very first Timberliners, but still...

[WadeJ]

Perhaps Holiday World was annoyed with the amount of rework Voyage has required to keep it running safe and reasonably smooth as well?  I know the ride has required an insane amount of work so maybe this deal was some sort of a payback?

Regardless, I think I might actually be able to handle it now without being worried about not being able to walk for a week so for me, this is good news lol.  For others, I can see how this might be worrisome.

[Millennium Force 44]

Wow.  I am stunned, if this article is correct:

...The park will spend $540,000 to replace three 28-seat cars with two new 28-seat cars on the ride Amusement Today has rated the world’s number one wooden coaster for three successive years. The third train turned out to offer only marginal improvement in operating capacity, which Koch expects to see offset by faster loading and unloading with the new cars....

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/nov/09/new-trains-should-make-award-winning-coaster-feel-/

Assuming by "cars" they mean trains, this is the bargain of the century, if the figures are indeed correct.  Even that much per train would be a bargain compared to other companies prices.  Of course it is possible that Holiday World got a substantial discount by being a previous customer AND taking delivery of the very first Timberliners, but still...

Hopefully there was some sort of numeric calculation going on there and not just someone "figuring" the new trains will offset the amount of time it takes to dispatch the PTC trains. IMO I don't see that model PTC train to be very problematic with loading and unloading times. If it were El Toro's trains, then yes I can see how dispatch times are directly affected by the trains themselves.

[AV Matt]

The seatbelts really slow things down at Holiday World because they are so diligent to check every belt and restraint. With the new restraints, the riders will be able to hand over their lose articles (another thing that slows down loading) and sit down and pull the lap bar down and be done. There won't be any fiddling with the seatbelt trying to make it fit and figure out whose seatbelt is whose and all that jazz. I can see it speeding up load times by as much as 90 seconds over the current trains.

So that is a good thing, but the ride will no longer feel as out of control and be more like El Toro. So it will gain new fans for that and lose fans for that.

The deal on the new trains is certainly a steal. I'm sure it's a combination of the trains likely being cheaper to begin with (way fewer parts) and a discount for HW being the first to invest in them in addition to already letting TGG test a prototype on Raven.

HW should have known exactly what they were getting themselves into when they ordered the Voyage. Will Koch was even considered a designer on the project. The Gravity Group designed the ride to push the envelope to where Will wanted it, so they shouldn't be held liable for the high maintenance costs.

[Millennium Force 44]

Thanks for the info Matt. Why are these trains going to make the ride that much smoother? The wheels are still going to be metal, correct? I think one of the biggest factors that make Intamin woodies so smooth is the fact that the wheels are polyurethane coated and not bare metal like on traditional wooden coasters. The prefabricated track helps with the precision of the track, but I think the wheels are the biggest factor making plug n' plays so smooth.
Is it the wheel placement and distance from other wheel chassis that will help smoothen the ride?

[GADVwow]

From the Holiday World blog:

Koch says the Timberliner’s wheels are engineered to steer through curves as they move along the coaster track, creating a smoother ride and less wear and tear on the track. The seats are ergonomically designed for greater comfort, including an exclusive seat-suspension design. The padded seats will also accommodate wider-hipped and longer-legged riders.

[B-mac]

It's also the travel the chassis allows by the upstop wheels. RT has a lot of travel, which makes it a bit rougher. While El toro has less travel allowed, which helps the ride be smoother. other factors in this are the quality of the wood, the design, the company whom made the trains, even climate and age.

[AV Matt]

Climate and age only matter if the ride isn't maintained in tip top shape. Some of the oldest woodies out there are among the smoothest and some of the youngest woodies out there are among the roughest. But they can all be as good as new if taken care of correctly.

El Toro utilizes the precision-milled track and poly-coated wheels for a smooth ride. Essentially it's a steel coaster made of wood. The same trains on a traditional woodie would not track as well due to variations in the gauge of the hand-crafted track. Similarly, if PTC trains were put on El Toro, you wouldn't have the poly-coated wheels to dampen the forces imparted by the track. So for that ride, it's a combination of the coated wheels and the manufactured track which make it not feel like a wood coaster at all.

The Timberliners have regular metal wheels (no coating) like traditional woodie trains, but they "clamp" to the track to minimize any bouncing between the rails (which is a big cause of track damage) and since there is a wheel set underneath each seat, each car (seat) is able to pivot at its center of gravity (like B&M cars) and steer. Traditional woodie cars basically slide through the turns, hugging the outside rail which keeps the cars from flying off the track. The Timberliners' wheel assemblies adapt and turn with the curvature of the track. My understanding is that the Millennium Flyer trains lack the clamping action that the Timberliners have so although they can steer, they don't "clamp" to the track and thus can still bounce between the rails a bit.

I heard the Timberliners have something like twice as many wheels as PTC's do, but due to the steering ability and clamping the track, they have less rolling friction and thus will go faster than the PTC's do. All of this precision is sure to result in a less "woodie" feel, BUT it's still metal wheels on hand-crafted track, so it won't feel like you're on steel.

These trains should work wonders for Boardwalk Bullet if they ever get to that ride. BB tests the limits of PTC's steering problem even more than the Voyage does.

[overlord]

I have faith in GG that they designed these cars to have the same, if not more, airtime as they originally had. We can only sit tight and wait until next season before we see how things roll out.

[B-mac]

good to see they'll be increasing the capacity of the ride though.

[Steve]

It's great to see these new trains, but I fear it may only lower capacity with only 2 trains...

[B-mac]

or it could balance out, maybe?